Welcome to the fourteenth episode of Season Two of Wisdom for Wellbeing Podcast. On this episode I interview Dr. Lauren Tober, Clinical Psychologist and Yoga Teacher.

I have been following Lauren’s work for many years now and love seeing her skillful integration of Eastern practices with Western psychology. As you’ll find in this interview, she has a gift for clearly explaining deep concepts and a warmth that leaves you feeling safe. I have no doubt that anyone interested in yoga or mental health will truely benefit from the wisdom she shares here.

Want to keep in touch? Head to @drkaitlin on Instagram or @wisdomforwellbeingpod on Facebook to connect.

What is covered in this episode:

>> Mental Health Aware Yoga is having an understanding of mental health in yoga practices to create a safe space for healing that may be experiencing anxiety, depression or overwhelm.

>>A majority of yoga students practice yoga for mental health benefits, and specifically, to reduce stress and anxiety.

>>Six pillars that frame Lauren’s mental health aware yoga program:

1. Knowledge of Western Psychology and DSM-5 criteria for depression, anxiety, trauma
2. Yogic psychology is about how experiencing mental illness affects the thoughts, beliefs, capacity to connect to a sense of joy
3. Creating a safe container is the practice of listening and being present with someone
4. Therapeutic skills is about being mindful of who is showing up in the classes and created a safe space using rhythm and pacing
5. Yogic practices
6. Mental Health Crisis and how to support students when things get tough

Links Discussed

• mentalhealthawareyoga.com
• capturinggratitude.com
• Capturing Gratitude Instagram

Get the Episode Transcript Here (WHEN COMPLETED)

Transcript

Lauren Tober: [00:00:00.00] We all have mental health challenges. We all have some experience with it, some to greater or lesser degrees than others and whether it’s our own personal experience or whether it’s the people that we love, and the people that we serve who are experiencing mental health challenges.

Intro: [00:00:17.20] You’re listening to the Wisdom for Wellbeing Podcast, the show that blends science and heart to bring you evidence-based tips and tricks for cultivating a healthy, wealthy, [00:00:30.00] and meaningful life. Now, here’s your host, therapist, Yogi, and fellow full life-balancer, Dr Kaitlin Harkess.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:00:42.50] Hi there, welcome back to Wisdom for Wellbeing. Today we are joined by the amazing Dr. Lauren Tober. Dr. Lauren Tober is a clinical psychologist and yoga teacher with a passion for health, healing, happiness, and awakening. She is the founder [00:01:00.00] of the Centre for Mind, Body, Wellness in Mullumbimby, Australia and she teaches mental health aware yoga trainings as well as running several highly acclaimed online courses. Lauren believes that happiness is our true nature and that yoga, gratitude, authenticity, compassion, creativity, and community help us to cultivate happiness in our lives on an everyday basis. In today’s interview, Dr. Lauren [00:01:30.00] Tobar will share with you a bit about mental health aware you yoga. This is really important, both as someone who might be seeking a yoga class where you can feel safe and secure knowing that as Dr Tober shares a lot of people look to yoga when they are experiencing anxiety, depression, or overwhelm and actually continue their practice of yoga because of the mental health benefits that it brings into their lives. If you’re a yoga teacher [00:02:00.00] or a psychologist, you will be equally interested in understanding how we can create such a safe space for healing. Even understanding that as a yoga teacher you are not necessarily a therapist, but that you are providing an adjunct therapeutic service. So it’s really important to have an understanding of mental health and how to facilitate this safe space, which Dr Tober explains so [00:02:30.00] beautifully and I would certainly encourage you if this interview resonates with her to check out the training itself, but without further ado, let’s have a listen. Here’s Dr Lauren Tober now. So welcome Lauren to the Wisdom for Wellbeing podcast. I am delighted to have you here today.

Lauren Tober: [00:02:54.30] Thank you so much for having me here.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:02:56.90] I am, I feel really blessed. So I first had the pleasure [00:03:00.00] of meeting you in a training. I was actually doing where you were in Adelaide Australia, which is where I’m based and I feel really privileged to have connected with you then and to get to have this time with you here today.

Lauren Tober: [00:03:11.70] Likewise, that was such a beautiful training and such a great opportunity to get to know each other.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:03:16.10] Yeah, it certainly, it certainly was and for the listeners who haven’t maybe not had the pleasure of meeting you in person yet or hearing from you. Would you mind to sharing a little bit about who you are in the amazing work that you’re doing?

Lauren Tober: [00:03:28.40] Sure. I’d love to so my [00:03:30.00] name is Lauren Tober. I am trained as a clinical psychologist, a yoga teacher, and a certified iRest meditation teacher. So I’m based in Mullumbimby in Australia and I run the Centre for Mind, Body, Wellness, which is a kind of a holistic, integrative, wellness centre. I also run mental health aware yoga, which is a training program for yoga teachers, teaching yoga teachers about mental health. So lots of people come to [00:04:00.00] yoga for mental health reasons, but yoga teachers aren’t actually trained in their training about mental health mostly, not at all. And so I think that yoga is an amazing place to come and to be present with ourself and nurture mental health and so my mission is to support yoga teachers to make that so.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:04:24.90] That’s incredible and that’s a really interesting point, isn’t it? Because more and more we’re hearing about how yoga is [00:04:30.00] really beneficial for mental health and stress reduction, but how interesting that yoga teachers haven’t received specific training in this area.

Lauren Tober: [00:04:38.80] Yeah. Yeah, I think more and more yoga teachers are interested in it. It’s been really interesting the last years. I’ve been sharing these trainings how much interest there has been in it. So I think you’re good teachers are hungry for it. But yeah, I mean traditionally it’s kind of well traditionally in the west. Anyway, it’s been outside the domain of yoga teachers to understand try and understand [00:05:00.00] this stuff. But as mental health is either on the rise or people are speaking more openly about it. I’m not sure which is which that there’s been a lot more interesting people.

[00:05:14.10] Going to yoga for mental health reasons and yoga teachers really wanting to do the best they can to support their students. You know, yoga teachers are those amazing group of people that really want to show up for their students and really be a really be of service and so there is really starting to understand [00:05:30.00] how important it is not just to prevent back pain or to help somebody stretch their muscles or get tied to ABS but also to support people with their mental health as well.

[00:05:43.10] We thought would it be worth that’s kind of at this point even defining what mental health or you know mental health challenges are well in the training. We look at depression anxiety stress and Trauma. So that’s the focus of what of what we look at in the mental [00:06:00.00] health aware yoga training and in the training room, we look at both the DSM-5 diagnosis the so the DSM-5 is a diagnostic and statistic manual and this is the diagnostic tool that psychologists and psychiatrists on

[00:06:12.90] Conscious used to diagnose mental mental illness there. We look at yoga from a western psychology point of view, but we also understand that one not everyone’s going to receive a diagnosis to not everyone’s interested in getting a diagnosis and three just because [00:06:30.00] you don’t meet this diagnostic criteria this kind of arbitrary measure of what these diagnoses are that you’re not suffering in some way. So in the training we learn about

[00:06:42.80] What mental illness is from a western psychology model? But we also look at it in a more broader context outside of the diagnostic model and just because you don’t fit into the box. It doesn’t mean that you might not be suffering in some way or might not benefit [00:07:00.00] from some support whether it’s yoga or otherwise that makes a lot of sense. So there are traditionally these criteria around the DSM label of anxiety depression or

[00:07:12.90] Mama but as individuals, we might have different experiences that may or may not align with this that cause us suffering and yoga teachers are looking to support us in this I guess challenge this the struggle that we might be in. Yeah, and one of the things that’s really important to me [00:07:30.00] about this work is understanding that we’re all in this together. So whether we’re yoga teachers, whether we’re psychologist, whether we’re lawyers or doctors or parents or whatever, we all have mental health challenges.

[00:07:42.80] There’s no kind of Us and Them is not like the people with mental health challenges over there. And the rest of us are over here. We all have some experience with this some to greater or lesser degrees and others and whether it’s our own personal experience or whether it’s the people that we love and the people [00:08:00.00] that we serve who are experiencing mental health challenges. We can all benefit from taking some kind of action to support our mental health whether we meet diagnostic criteria or not, and it’s just to me it

[00:08:12.80] Very important to understand and to fully kind of appreciate anybody that we Ron’s together. That’s very connecting and I think that really do stigmatizes, you know, you mentioned that we were talking more openly about mental health and that that was increasing alongside, you know prevalence going up. [00:08:30.00] But yeah, there’s movement to destigmatize it I think is quite powerful. Yeah. Yeah. It’s actually being really beautiful in the trainings that I’ve been running is is that the you know the teachers of started to

[00:08:42.80] Talk about their own challenges as well. And so not only are we sharing how we can support our students but we’re sharing our own Journeys and our own ways that yoga and other things have helped to support our own our own mental health. That sounds very reflective. Yeah, [00:09:00.00] he’s I guess with that before we kind of talk a little bit more about the mental health aware yoga training. I was thinking since we’ve been talking about increased prevalence. Do you wanna explain to the listeners? You know, I guess the

[00:09:12.80] The likelihood that someone might experience anxiety or depression and maybe talk through a little bit about what that might mean for them. Although be different for everyone. So it’s different for everyone. It’s different in different countries. It’s also different how you measure it. If you’re looking at clinical levels or subclinical levels, [00:09:30.00] but you know, the research tells us that 1 in 5 people have experienced a diagnosable mental illness in the past 12 months. So, you know, if you think about five people, you know, and most of us know more

[00:09:42.70] More than five people, you know think about how many friends you have on Facebook. Well in five of those will have experienced a statistically a diagnosable mental illness. And so that doesn’t take into consideration subclinical levels at all. [00:10:00.00] You know, we all we all go through stuff, you know, this is my technical word for it. We all have our stuff and you know, for some people it’s depression or anxiety for some people.

[00:10:12.80] It’s some kind of health related thing fatigue or cancer or broken leg or a broken heart from a relationship. It might be Financial. We’re all going through our own stuff and it shows up in different ways. And the way that affects us is [00:10:30.00] different. But yeah, I’ve already our stuff. I think that’s a really nice and connecting again way of looking at it, but we’ve all got our stuff in it’s about us seeking resources to support us.

[00:10:42.70] Us through our stuff and then allowing us perhaps to show up more fully to support those we care about them. I’ve been trying to think of a more kind of professional word then stuff, but I just keep coming back to cut some of us get [00:11:00.00] some other research which I which I found really interesting. There was a some research done by a guy called Stephen Penman quite a few years ago.

[00:11:12.80] No in 2005. I think I’m even might have been his PhD study and he looked at the kind of the status of yoga in Australia and he surveyed I think like over 3000 and 4000 yoga students and teachers in Australia and ocelot [00:11:30.00] do for questions. And at the time I think I was living in London and I remember get this question are coming through this kind of while ago and you know, he’s results around.

[00:11:42.70] Mental health for really interesting. So he found that 58.4% of yoga students reported beginning yoga to reduce stress and anxiety. Wow, that’s an incredible amount more than have. Yeah, and then seventy nine point [00:12:00.00] four percent. So nearly 80% of yoga students continue to practice yoga to reduce stress and anxiety. So you don’t look at any other mental health issues. You only looked at Stress and Anxiety, but I thought that was so interesting that I mean we

[00:12:12.80] Say the majority three-quarters of students are practicing yoga for the mental health benefits. Yeah, that’s quite powerful and that ongoing practice to the must be something that draws people back to the yoga mat in terms of that ongoing sense [00:12:30.00] of Stress Management and wellness. Generally that it’s cultivating for them with that. What you would you introduce us to mental health aware yoga, and you know the six pillars that

[00:12:42.70] That frame your mental health aware yoga program. Sure. I’d love to so like he said we have six pillars that we cover in the training. And so the first one is around knowledge of Western psychology. So like I said, we look at the DSM-5 criteria for depression anxiety stress or sorry no [00:13:00.00] stress isn’t in the DSM-5, but we look at stressed and then also trauma with look at the DSM-5 criteria for that. But also we look at complex trauma as well, which is an in the DSM.

[00:13:12.70] Five, so we understand try to understand mental illness from a western psychology perspective now, I think this is really important because what because this is the language that other health professionals are using so doctors and psychologists and psychiatrists [00:13:30.00] are using this is the language that yoga students are using as well. So they might come to class and they say I’ve just been diagnosed with major depressive disorder or social anxiety disorder or complex trauma or whatever.

[00:13:42.70] It is and it’s really important as yoga teachers that we can understand that language so we can have that team-based approach with other health professionals and then we can we can really understand what our students are telling us when they come with these diagnosis. So, you know, there’s a lot of in the yoga world and [00:14:00.00] in the greatest virtual world, there’s often this dismissal of diagnosis and you know, some people think that there’s no need to diagnose some people think you know,

[00:14:12.70] Really important to have a diagnosis. I kind of sit somewhere in the middle. I think for some people diagnosis can be really really helpful. You give it a name and then you can work out what to do. So for some people it’s super helpful. And for other people that I want to be put in boxes and then we just you know, we just let it go but as yoga teachers, I think it’s [00:14:30.00] really important that we understand speak the same language and we understand this Western model of psychology and mental illness. It’s really interesting just in terms of sorry to jump in but

[00:14:43.40] I’ve had other psychologists approached me asking, you know, if there are particular teachers locally that I might recommend because they have a client who might be experiencing trauma or something’s going on for them and they want to refer to a safe person. So I imagined when they reach out to then someone I might [00:15:00.00] suggest or when they do their own research. They would use that language around someone might have a diagnosis of PTSD. So post-traumatic stress disorder or major depressive disorder. So having an understanding as a yoga teacher what?

[00:15:12.60] I mean sounds like it could be really empowering in that conversation. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. And you know what? I love about working in the set in the center for mind body Wellness among been be as we have this multidisciplinary team. So we are like I work there as a psychologist. We have a doctor [00:15:30.00] and acupuncture and Kinesiology and the troposphere we have this massage and craniosacral have this beautiful team there and you know for some people they just come and see one practitioner and that’s fine but for other for other

[00:15:43.80] For other clients having a team that’s supporting them and that are talking to each other with, you know, completely transparent consent of course can be really nourishing for them. So if you if you’re going to a yoga class and you have a psychologist, [00:16:00.00] perhaps or some other kind of therapist who can you know who are on the same page and maybe you’re something really challenging comes up that they can have a talk and work out the best way to support you can be so nourishing your client to have that team based.

[00:16:12.70] Approach to around them so that so the yoga teacher even though from this training. Anyway, you don’t become a yoga therapist so it to become a therapist you need two years of training. This is a much shorter training to so students can feel safe and nourished in classes. But the yoga teacher [00:16:30.00] can be can become part of a multidisciplinary team and if they have this understanding of Western psychology, then they can really fit in so doing the background sounds really holistically focused.

[00:16:41.00] My my vision is as well. We’re just starting it now is to have a worldwide database of mental health or yoga teachers. So students who want to go to a general yoga class can find teachers who understand mental health and therapists like yourself who want to refer to yoga classes can look it up and find [00:17:00.00] teachers who have you know, who know easy know that they had this knowledge and understanding that sounds brilliant and certainly needed. Thank you so much for sharing in.

[00:17:10.90] Cards to Western psychology and how that fits into the framework and challenging. Yes. Yes said there can be some taboo around it as well. So that’s nice that it sounds very very balanced. What would what would come next in regards to the pillars? Great. So the second pillar is yogic psychology. So we’re look at Psychology through [00:17:30.00] the lens of patanjali yoga sutras. So we look at the yamas and niyamas MERS which are part of the sutras. We look at coaches and gunas and the

[00:17:40.80] Different that the framework around yoga psychology. So the yoga teachers listening in will know what I’m talking about everywhere everybody else wearing yoga looks at, you know at a very kind of holistic integrated way. For example, we look at mental illness doesn’t just affect [00:18:00.00] the mind. It affects the body and the breath or energy. It affects our emotions that affects our thoughts and beliefs that affects our capacity to connect him with a teenage sense of joy.

[00:18:10.90] A ability to witness and to notice what’s arising within us. So yeah, so we look at Psychology. We look at it psychology through the lens of yoga and that sounds like it’s really dimensional. You know, you mentioned the breath you mentioned like sense [00:18:30.00] of awareness number of different perspectives. That sounds like are taken in that component. Yeah, and so then the third pillar of Mental Health

[00:18:40.80] The way yoga is creating a safe container. Now this this for me is the most important part of mental health or a yoga and you know, maybe it’s not as like fancy or sexy as some of you know doing specific Yoga practices or something like that, but for me like this is [00:19:00.00] probably if you were just going to take one part from this this is the most important part because I think showing up, you know, whether you’re a yoga teacher or whether you’re a friend showing up for someone in crime.

[00:19:10.80] And you’re going through a challenging time being able to be present and hold the space in a way that feels safe. That is so powerful. And so healing for somebody doesn’t even really matter what you say really matter. What practices you do? If you can be present with somebody and [00:19:30.00] support them to feel safe. That’s powerful and I honestly as a psychologist, I think that’s like a huge part of what I do for sure.

[00:19:40.70] It kind of you know, even could be seen through an attachment lens in some way someone who’s there and present and can be you know, that that’s safe place where you go and seek some Refuge from the chaos. That might be in suing beautiful way to put it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds incredible. So that’s one of the things that sounds like [00:20:00.00] you hold most dear to your heart. And you resonated listen to his now come back to us. Yeah creating a safe container is is most most important and

[00:20:10.80] Parts to this. And and and like I said, this is true like if your yoga teacher tailored somebody for sure, but for any, you know for anybody listening and doing this with your kids doing this with your friend when she’s just had her heart broken doing this with your partner when you’re talking through a difficult thing, you know, really being present really listening. [00:20:30.00] So we learned we learned listening skills. So not trying to fix or rescue or solve but we practice listening and doing doing these things that that

[00:20:40.70] Colleges do really well as making noises like this. Uh-huh. You know, when I when I first started podcasting I would do these little noises and then I listened to them and I was like, oh we’re in you got to stop doing that. It sounds [00:21:00.00] it sounds so terrible uniform but it’s but it’s something like it’s so simple that you can dismiss it but

[00:21:10.80] If you can be present with somebody and not try to fix it not share your own story about it not feel like you need to rescue them or I’ll pour you but to be present and to make some like gentle noises so that kind of encourage them to keep talking this helps to create to create a safe container. [00:21:30.00] So it may be for people listening and if you’re naughty oh teacher and you know, Sarah first if you want to try this out with your kids or your partner or somebody and see see how it feels for you and for them.

[00:21:40.70] Oh, that’s a beautiful invitation and something that listeners he had take away. And after after you finish this episode that can be you know, the practice for the day. Yeah, great. Okay. And so then the fourth pillar is around therapeutic skills. So really [00:22:00.00] clear that this chain training is not to become a therapist. It’s like a 50 to 60 hour training you need to spend like a few years to become a therapist, but yoga can be therapeutic.

[00:22:10.70] Egg so we look at some different therapeutic skills around the pacing and the rhythm of the class languaging things like this pacing and Rhythm that sounds like something that if someone was looking to connect in with a mental health aware yoga class [00:22:30.00] because you know, something was going on for them. That would be I imagine quite reassuring because sometimes the images we see of what yoga and I say in my quotation

[00:22:40.70] Air quotes is you can be somewhat alarming and it sometimes being you know, a very very Dynamic quick practice which may suit some personalities temperament situations, but it sounds like this is teaching the teachers how to be mindful of who showing up and how to create a safe pay. So that’s not [00:23:00.00] necessarily going to be the yoga that someone might receive so just to kind of highlight that for people with yeah. Yeah, so Rhythm and Pace like pacing

[00:23:10.80] Is you know for some people a really Dynamic class can be really helpful and we talked about this in the in the next pillar the yogic practice the section that what we want to do is we want to meet our students where they are. And so this is important for yoga students. But I mean you can think about this when you’re talking to your kids or your friends or whoever as [00:23:30.00] well that you want to meet meet the person that you with where they are and so somebody’s really anxious or kind of really work really like agitated it.

[00:23:40.70] Actually can be really helpful for them to start with a really Dynamic practice. If you get someone who’s super agitated and anxious to do a restorative class or probably like hate you for it, like silently cursing you and they’ll be kind of switching around and moving. So, I mean, [00:24:00.00] of course it depends it depends on the student and but often starting with a more Dynamic practice can meet that student where they are and support them eventually to down regulate the

[00:24:10.70] The part of rhythms is around interpersonal and intrapersonal Rhythm so we can create rhythms in the yoga class where the class moves together so you can think maybe a sun salutation where the teacher counts the students through a sun salutation or maybe a cat Cow sequence any kind of movement [00:24:30.00] where the class is moving together. And I mean that can be just can be a really beautiful experience to feel that kind of Harmony and

[00:24:40.60] Has movement with a class often if we’re feeling depressed or anxious or have a history of trauma and we’re experiencing some of the effects of that we can feel disconnected from other people and so gently moving together with a group of people whether it’s moving the body or whether it’s chanting arm [00:25:00.00] or a singing a song can help to help to feel more connected with your community which can which can be really amazing when I train wreck.

[00:25:11.20] Yeah, I mean when I trained with this or Van Der kolk is one of the leaders in trauma work and an advocate of yoga one of the things he suggested was, you know, singing together or throwing ball back and forwards between each other or moving together in yoga class like this. So it mean in [00:25:30.00] the yoga contacts were less likely to throw balls, but I mean you could but it’s just it’s this this idea of coming together and moving together or

[00:25:40.60] Singing or chanting together that can help to bring us together. And so then the other rhythm is moving to our own own personal rhythms as well. So when I teach the class some of it will be moving together. I like to start with some arms at the beginning of class and we chant together depending on the context of course, but here where I live in Muhlenberg, you know, I mean is just [00:26:00.00] normal but in some contexts like if you went into a hospital or in other in other parts of the world, that wouldn’t be appropriate.

[00:26:10.70] It but here is culturally appropriate so we on and then also maybe if I’m starting a sequence I’ll start when we’ll all move together. And then the invitation will be to tune into your own internal rhythms. So moving in accordance with your breath. So allow the breath to flow exactly as it is and then [00:26:30.00] link sink the movement to your own natural breast. So you’re creating this internal Rhythm. So there’s a couple of elements and that sounds really empowering as an individual to be able to

[00:26:40.60] Connect to community and to connect to yourself and the rhythm of both represent. Yeah, yeah, and so then the fifth pillar is around yogic practices. And so I think this is probably what people expect that they’re going to get from this training and we you know, we do this for Phyllis before we get there, [00:27:00.00] but what’s really important is there’s no like posture for depression. There’s no posture for anxiety. There’s no posture for trauma like it’s not it’s not that

[00:27:10.70] Paul and so what we learn in the in the training is around which practices are up regulating which practices are down regulating and how to sequence practices to support to meet your students where they are and then to support them to come to a more sattvic state. So the [00:27:30.00] in yoga we talk about the gunas and maybe this is interesting for anybody is sad far is where were kind of aiming to be is kind of a clarity.

[00:27:40.60] Contentment peacefulness. This is what we’re trying to the whole aim of yoga really is to help our Yoga practices. Anyway, there’s to help us to cultivate suffer. But I was going to say Clarity and contentment like that. Sounds like something that I imagine. I know I’m listening and going on. Yes, I imagine. Yes, [00:28:00.00] of course that’s where we’re aiming that sounds beautiful and Brilliant and I mean, it’s the same reason that you would go and see a therapist right or even maybe that you would go to an exercise class or go for a walk on the beach.

[00:28:10.60] Pat your dog, they go where we have this drive within us for a start fire and a lot of the things we do whether it’s having a drink of coffee or having an early night. The impetus behind it is often to cultivate supper whether we’re using that language or not and so in yogic Psychology, there’s three gunas [00:28:30.00] sattva Thomas and Rogers Sir Thomas, is that kind of heavy lifting logic more kind of depressive energy and Rogers is more that kind of

[00:28:40.60] Of anxious overwhelmed going a million miles an hour. I mean, this is how I kind of felt when when the coronavirus first kind of came to my community and trying to work out everything and I’m going to support my clients and set up my center and you know all the stuff I kind of went into this kind [00:29:00.00] of adjust again energy trying to work it all out. And so yoga was really helpful to help me to calm some of that rajasic energy to come back to stata Center.

[00:29:10.60] That’s really a nice way of putting out for us to be able to look at how these different energies might affect us and where we’re aiming and I think that’s a really interesting point that a lot of what we’re doing in life is trying to find that space some of it might be effective and some of it might be less effective and that’s probably a lens that we can all learn from, you know, as individuals yoga teachers [00:29:30.00] are not right and you know, sometimes things are effective in the short term, but they’re not in the in the long term. So you might come home from a really busy day and feel really anxious and have a glass of wine and then the glass of wine

[00:29:40.60] And turns into a bottle of wine and you know in the short term it helps you to feel more sad because you feel more chilled out you drop some of the stress away, but then you then you wake up the next day feeling tamasic like a really heavy and kind of a depressive energy. So sometimes a lot of the time what I see is specially my clinical practice is [00:30:00.00] think the things that we do have a short-term benefit which is why we do them whether it’s having cigarette or getting drunk or getting high or flipping through our social media.

[00:30:12.80] And it has like a short-term effect of or maybe like a little movement towards that fur, but the long-term benefits take us further away. And I guess maybe that’s related to why more people are continuing with their yoga practice in regards to maintaining mental well-being [00:30:30.00] because the side effects might be might be different, you know. Yeah, there’s a lot less side effects from yoga than there is from you know, getting drunk or getting high. Yeah. I’m perhaps um,

[00:30:40.60] Positive side effects. Hopefully, hopefully I guess we would you mind talking us through, you know, the final pillar of mental health crises because that is probably very aligned with what we’re talking about. Now how we’ve tried to you know, move to this the status at fun different ways that [00:31:00.00] may or may not have supported us. So in the Mental Health crisis pillow we talked about how we can support our students when things get tough, so

[00:31:10.60] Um, it’s interesting as yoga teachers, like we said yoga teachers aren’t trained as counselors and this training does definitely not train you to be a counselor. However, yoga teachers are really good at creating a safe container and holding space for people and when that happens people naturally start to open up so they might not have told [00:31:30.00] anybody that they’re going through something but they feel safe in a class and else. Maybe they’ll start crying. Oh, maybe they’ll come up to the teacher after class and tell you something really really personal.

[00:31:40.50] Anal, so I think it’s important as yoga teachers, we can really hold that space the other the other thing is that some of the yogic practices can be really triggering for people so it could be like like a kapalabhati or breath practice, which is very kind of stimulating pump the belly and you get the energy moving around a lot. And if [00:32:00.00] you have a history of panic that could you know, bring up some feelings of Panic or if a teacher asks you to feel an emotion and stay with that feeling of emotion or sensation.

[00:32:10.60] The body which is something that we doing I rest and that can be incredibly difficult and triggering for people. So I’m on one hand. This can be really helpful, but it can also be really triggering so that the practices and things that we give in yoga if went if we’re not if we don’t have an understanding of standing of what [00:32:30.00] we’re doing and this is what what I’m doing in the training is helping teachers to understand the effects of these practices. So they go into them they teach them with their eyes wide open and they know that the effects but if

[00:32:40.50] It’s if it’s not taught in the right way or you know, the student has some history that you don’t know about. It could it could be really triggering so we need to know how to how to support that and you know, it could be the Yoga practices or it could be something that you can’t control like you’re wearing a black T-shirt and the purpose that you know, the person who [00:33:00.00] mugged them in an Alleyway one night was wearing a black T-shirt and that was triggered and so that’s triggering for them when they see you all the deodorant that you wear or a phrase that you

[00:33:10.60] A or so we people can be triggered in our classes for reasons that we cannot predict and cannot control and it’s important that we can that we know that that can happen. We don’t take it personally. We minimize it we minimize the likelihood of that happening as much as we can on the you can’t completely minimize it and [00:33:30.00] we know what to do when it does happen. I think that knowing what to do when it does happen sounds really reassuring both for the yoga teacher as well as for the practitioner and

[00:33:40.50] The class like how how safe does that feel to know that if something goes on that you’re going to be supported in a way that is secure. That is it sounds like taught well because I imagine that’s a scary thing if you are coming to yoga with, you know, a vulnerability. [00:34:00.00] Yeah. Yeah, and it’s really not uncommon. So people can have like a big traumatic experience, although in my in my experience that doesn’t happen very often, but I think it’s important.

[00:34:10.60] To to be you know have the skills to be able to meet that. What does happen all the time in yoga is that people cry, right, you know, I’ve done it myself and I was chatting to my best friend the other day. We’ve been friends since we were born and well [00:34:30.00] since she was born because I’m three months older than her, but then she gave you she gave me permission to share to share this story. She

[00:34:40.90] She went to she’s a yoga teacher but she loves going to yoga classes and she went to a yoga class and she has a very busy life. She like heads-up Hospital Department. She has a couple kids a whole thing and she went to the class and she started crying in class and her mom had died, maybe six months or four and [00:35:00.00] she just been super busy with life with her, you know her staff and her kids and the whole thing and she came to class.

[00:35:10.00] And she could be quiet as you could be with yourself and student the teacher was kind and you know, the tears started flowing and there wasn’t anything wrong. Like we don’t calling the pillar men to have crisis but crying’s not a crisis crying can you know, it can feel like a crisis and it can be it sometimes but it can also be [00:35:30.00] really nourishing thing and you know to me like it says to me that she could cry in that space that she felt held enough to let that calm.

[00:35:39.70] Yeah, that’s really beautiful and what a release to be able to let that go and feel like you don’t have to hold it all in anymore and hold it together. But as you said you’re safe enough to let go. Yeah, and as you mentioned like there’s a quietness to it, isn’t it? So our minds, you know, and I know I’m prone to this some of our protective, you know ways of being [00:36:00.00] in the world might be to Dart around from one task to the another and keep really busy. So then suddenly when there is this slowness in space things might come up there.

[00:36:09.50] You know are presenting as an opportunity to work through to breathe through and it sounds beautiful way to put that yeah. Yeah, it sounds really nourishing that this is created as a safe space to allow. Yeah with all of this Lauren, you know, where where can people get more information where can people work with you. [00:36:30.00] We’ve talked a lot about the mental health aware yoga training. So someone is a yoga teacher. I’m sure their ears of already party got but what are What are the

[00:36:39.40] The steps you have a number of online offerings for us. I do. Yeah, so if you are interested in the middle, so we’re training its mental health aware yoga.com at the moment. The trainings is online when things start to change in the world. We will go back to doing some face-to-face trainings as well. We did have training scheduled for Auckland and Brisbane that we’re [00:37:00.00] postponing last year or the beginning of year. We did training in Copenhagen and we hope to go back there when I don’t

[00:37:09.40] When it’s going to be that we can leave the country happens that will be happening. But for now, we’re doing the trainings online. I’m also in the process. It’s not up. It’s not up just yet. But for those little fruit yogurt students or people who are interested in going to yoga class. We are putting together a database of teachers who have done this training. [00:37:30.00] So I mean, this is my real passion behind. This is making yoga classes have really safe and nourishing place for first.

[00:37:39.40] Students and so my way to support that to happen is to train your new teachers to do that. So that’s not quite up there yet. But stay tuned. It will be it will be the other part is that I have some other online offerings as well. And if you go to my website, which is Lauren Toba tive are.com. There’s [00:38:00.00] some online courses are and teaching it online. I rest meditation costs and living your heartfelt desires, which is a

[00:38:09.40] Another classic brings a piece of the IRS work around creating a life that you love some good kind of brings together meditation and coaching together in the course. So beautiful Lauren and listeners will put all these links in the show notes as well because connecting in yeah Lorent over.com and mental health aware yoga.com. And also you [00:38:30.00] have such a wonderful presence on social media as well. I find you know, you’re capturing gratitude project for instance is showing gratitude.com.

[00:38:41.30] So beautiful, like these are the things meant, you know, when we talk about the scrolling that we might get caught into if first rolling. This is the sort of nourishment that I know. I know I personally like to be soaking up. So something that listeners might resonate with to a good idea. So capturing gratitude is a free Global happiness photographic Happiness [00:39:00.00] Project. So super simple we take photos of things were grateful for and share them online so that you know, I was thinking about ways that

[00:39:09.40] I can give back and you know, leave the well, maybe a little bit kind of then I found it and maybe some of the programs are tied up with donating money to different organizations. But this is a this is a you know a program that is like, okay, so you don’t always have to donate money to make a difference that [00:39:30.00] wanting to support people to acknowledge what they’re grateful for and I think in a small way that contributes to global.

[00:39:39.30] Happiness as well. So we’re on Instagram at capturing gratitude.com. And if you want to take some of your own photos of things you’re grateful for and share them on Instagram use the hashtag hashtag captioning gratitude. That sounds like such a beautiful action. Maybe we can walk away today practice are listening skills and [00:40:00.00] find something we are grateful for and commit to sharing that so we can indulge in it a little bit longer and longer that gratitude beautiful.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:40:09.40] Thank you so much for your time today Lauren. It was just a delight to have this conversation with you. Great. I’m glad we finally made it happen. We planned this earlier before the depend on make and then everything kind of fell apart at the same. So glad that we could finally make it happen. I [00:40:30.00] hope that you found this interview with Lauren as inspiring and as practical as I did, I really like her framework and really shared languaging around the fact that we all have stuff as well as her tips for listening and I really hope that you will find something today to take a quick photo of to honor your gratitude for the things that make your life meaningful, of course, you know as a yoga teacher myself and a believer [00:41:00.00] in Practice of yoga if it’s something that resonates with you and aligns with you. I hope that you are able to explore that as a safe space a safe option for your healing perhaps even seeking out a teacher who is mental health aware. If you have enjoyed listening, it would certainly mean the world to me. If you would take two minutes to leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to this podcast as I’ve shared in the podcast episodes more recently. It can be a little  [00:41:30.00]Difficult to leave a review on iTunes your first time it’s not totally intuitive. So there is a how to video on drkaitlin.com where you’ll also get all the show notes and links to Lauren’s amazing work, and of course if you are still having any issues, feel free to reach out via email. Hello at dr. Caitlin.com or via social media. Thank you so much for joining me this week, and I’ll look forward to connecting next week. Alright. Bye for now.

Outro: [00:41:59.50] Thanks [00:42:00.00] for joining us this week on the Wisdom for Wellbeing Podcast. Please visit drkaitlin.com to connect, find show notes, other episodes, and to subscribe. While you’re at it, if you find value in the show, we’d appreciate a rating or perhaps simply tell a friend about the show. Wisdom for Wellbeing is not a substitute for professional, individualized mental health treatment, if you are in crisis, please contact 000, [00:42:30.00] your local emergency number if you are outside of Australia, or attend your local hospital, ED.