Welcome to the twelfth episode of Season Two of Wisdom for Wellbeing Podcast. On this episode I interview Ben Warren, a Clinical Nutritionist.

I found Ben’s energy absolutely contagious – and I think that highlights the palpable impact of the lifestyle he is leading. As you’ll hear in the interview, Ben came to exploring the interface of nutrition and health having struggled physically during his career as a professional golfer. It was the changes he made to what he was taking into his system that offered him healing. Now, Ben is completing his PhD exploring specific nutrients and their impact on something many of us struggle with, mental health. I have no doubt that this area is full of big words and high-level biology, but Ben elegantly and simply explains what you need to know to make some immediate changes in your life. No doubt you’ll benefit from this wisdom.

Want to keep in touch? Head to @drkaitlin on Instagram or @wisdomforwellbeingpod on Facebook to connect.

What is covered in this episode:

>>How Ben’s back pain was caused by a food intolerance, and how this connection transformed his life focus from professional golfing to clinical nutrition

>>How nutrition underpins everything from physical to emotional health

>>Ben’s PhD research looking at supplementation for individuals experiencing anxiety

>>The impacts of poor gut health on things from inflammation and heart burn to bloating and mental ill health

>>The bidirectional relationship of mental health and gut health and the multiple systems involved in this

>>Different neurotransmitters that are related to wellbeing are produced in the gut

>>Why the modern diet will never provide you all you the Recommended Daily Allowances (RDAs) of the nutrients you need, let alone the Suggested Optimal Allowances (SOAs)

>>Important supplements to take for wellbeing (generally and for more specific diets like a vegan one)

>>Mindfulness of your food sources and how that impacts nutritional value

Links Discussed

• www.bepure.co.nz
• Facebook
• Instagram
• Youtube

Transcript

Ben Warren: [00:00:03.50] And nutrition has such a, well diet and lifestyle factors have such a profound impact on how we experience life whether that’s joint pain, whether that’s fatigue, whether that’s how we sleep, whether that’s you know, and there’s nothing, nothing impacts our experience of life more than Mental Health.

Introduction: [00:00:25.60] You’re listening to the Wisdom for Wellbeing podcast the show that blends science and [00:00:30.00] heart to bring you evidence based tips and tricks for cultivating a healthy, wealthy, and meaningful life. Now. Here’s your host, therapist, Yogi, and fellow full life balancer. Dr. Kaitlin Harkess.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:00:46.40] Hi there. Today on Wisdom for Wellbeing, I’m joined by Ben Warren. Ben is a leading Clinical Nutritionist in New Zealand and the founder and Clinical Director of Be Pure Health. When they say one door closes, another door opens [00:01:00.00] that is exactly the case for Ben. The health condition that effectively ended his professional golf career was also his entry point into the Natural Health sphere. Empowered by his healing through nutrients, diet, and lifestyle, Ben set off on a mission to share this incredible knowledge with others and that is exactly what he does with you here today. He’ll talk you through how nutrients underpin everything from your physical to your emotional health. And in fact, Ben is currently [00:01:30.00] completing a PhD in this area exploring the link between mental health and nutrients. He’ll also talk you through the bi-directional relationship of mental health and gut health and the multiple systems that are involved in this. He’ll give you 10 tips for better gut health and I’ve also created a little checklist, a little handout on this. So don’t worry if you don’t get them all down, you can head to the show notes after and download it there. Ben introduces you to something that he highlights as being maybe [00:02:00.00] a bit controversial. But how your modern diet will never provide you all of the recommended daily allowances of the nutrients you need, let alone on the suggested optimal allowances. So Ben talks you through how you can supplement to support your optimal health, your well-being and the opportunity to go forward and thrive. But without further ado, let me introduce you to Ben himself. Ben, [00:02:30.00] welcome to Wisdom for Well-being. I am delighted to have you joining us here today.

Ben Warren: [00:02:39.60] Thanks so much for having me Kaitlin, it’s my pleasure.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:02:42.50] And I guess just to maybe start off with introducing yourself, you know listeners know a little bit about your background and you know, your incredible history working with food for various, you know challenges that people might be experiencing. Would you dive in a little deeper, introduce yourself and how you came to be here? [00:03:00.00]

Ben Warren: [00:03:01.60] Yeah, absolutely. So yeah. Hi everybody. I’m Ben Warren. I’m a Clinical Nutritionist, founder of Be Pure Health, which is a health group of companies in New Zealand and Clinical Director of the Beaker Clinics. So we probably have New Zealand’s largest Natural Health clinic, it’s based in Auckland. I never intended to be a nutritionist. I actually intended to be a professional golfer and I have as a very good golfer. I’m originally from London, got a golf scholarship to the [00:03:30.00] US. And coming up, met a Kiwi, met a New Zealand girl. And so I’m kind of like a souvenir from her OE (Overseas Experience) that she brought me back to New Zealand. And a natural progression was to be a pro golfer and, but I had a back injury that was kind of career-ending back injury and became a professional golf coach. And in my search to sort of get my back sorted. I was going through a lot of different trainings around the world, like learning about the body and performance and I met a lady just [00:04:00.00] looked at me and she said listen, Ben, it looks like your back problems are getting caused by a food intolerance. I was like my gosh how could a food intolerance give me a bad back? And she started to explain that we have you shared nerve innervation from spinal segments and that if you’re eating foods that shut down your small intestine, you’re going to live start shutting down the muscles to stabilize your pelvis and she’s like, it looks like it’s dairy, which obviously I looked at her and was like, you must be mad to think that dairy is giving me a bad back [00:04:30.00] and then she proceeded to say that you know, it’s probably maybe dairy because I didn’t breathe very well through my nose and my head migrated forward so I could breathe better through my mouth. And so I was like, you’re very scientific in my approach to health. I was like, surely there must be a test that I could do to see this and she’s like you need to do an IgG, IgA Elisa blood test. See if your body’s building immune molecules to the foods you’re eating. So we did this test and lo and behold it came back and I had a very severe immune response to dairy so I cut out dairy and my back didn’t get better straight away but within just [00:05:00.00] a couple of weeks, the asthma that I’d had since I was about six or seven years old mysteriously just disappeared and and I was like, yeah, I was like, oh my gosh, how how did I not know that the food I was eating had such a huge impact on my experience of life? And so in that moment it turned off me wanting to hit golf balls and turned on this kind of a insatiable desire to understand the human body. And so then spent a number of years retraining in human form of nutrition, ended up  [00:05:30.00]getting a Master’s degree in Holistic Nutrition and 16 years ago started out off in clinical practice. And so since then just been trying to help as many people as I can.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:05:42.70] That’s such an incredible story Ben, you know particularly, that experience of something so unexpected like a a back pain being linked to food, you know, that’s something that really catches me because I would have had no idea.

Ben Warren: [00:05:58.20] Yeah. Yeah, it’s I mean it’s, [00:06:00.00] it was crazy. And I mean I haven’t had back pain now in over 15 years. And yeah, it’s incredible and it just shifted my life in a moment and it’s been a fun ride ever since.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:06:13.90] And it’s evident, you know in the way of talking about this what a passionate is for you and you know, you’ve gone on further. So you’re looking at and completing a PhD actually looking at mental health and nutrition. So can you tell us a little bit about that?

Ben Warren: [00:06:27.00] And yeah, yeah. So for me, I’ve [00:06:30.00] always I guess from that personal experience. I’ve always been interested in how we can shape our experience of life and nutrition has such a diet and lifestyle factors have such a profound impact on how we experience life. Whether that’s joint pain, whether that’s fatigue, whether that’s how we sleep whether that’s you know, and there’s nothing, nothing impacts our experience of life more than mental health. And so, you know if we’re not feeling anxiety or if you’re feeling depressed, that [00:07:00.00] that has a dramatic impact on your whole experience of life. And so I was, a number of years ago. I was very much interested in a molecule that I’ve come across clinically and it’s a pyro molecule and so ended up chatting to Dr, Professor Julia Rucklidge. She’s one of the, she’s probably the leading researcher in the world with nutrition and mental health. So she, she literally treats mental health with a multivitamin, it’s not any [00:07:30.00] old multivitamin, it’s very complete. It’s also, she uses it at dosages which are considered medications. So she’s giving people a lot of a multivitamin so up to like 15 caps, sorry 12 capsules a day of one particular product they would be taking so it’s not just taking one a day, it’s taking a high dose. And anyway, so I got talking to her about this molecule and she was just like, you know what that would make a really good PhD and I was like, oh, okay.And so yeah, so here I am nearly four years [00:08:00.00] in, I’m doing it part-time because life’s very busy as well. I’ve got a family, a big business, and all that sort of, clients, all that sort of stuff. But so yeah, I’m four years in and we were looking at treating people, actually had a trial run into actually got we had to stop because of covid lockdown. We were, we were treating people with anxiety with high doses of Zinc and B6 and using a urine metabolite as a treatment predictor. So there’s this Pi role within the, within [00:08:30.00] the urine, that is associated with, it tends to bind Zinc apparently and increased excretion of Zinc which then people get Zinc deficient and we know Zinc is incredibly important for mental health. And so they then express a variety of mental health conditions, anxiety being one of the lower grade ones that you can work with.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:08:50.60] That’s incredible. And what captures me too is that you’re marking it, you know, with with looking at what’s kind of this marker in people’s urine too, that there’s an individualized component to [00:09:00.00] it. So you’re noticing what’s going on for the individual, seeing if this is appropriate and then using specific, you know, vitamins, Zinc B12 in this case, to support that individual, to work. I shouldn’t say work through but I guess it shows that there’s this real physiological component to anxiety and a host of other mental health conditions.

Ben Warren: [00:09:20.90] Absolutely. Then there’s a biochemical aspect you know, it’s very complex and I’m by no means at all say that this is a Magic Bullet solution for everybody. The [00:09:30.00] results, you know, too early to talk about them, but they were looking promising but at the end of the day that you know, there’s a strong biochemical aspect to how we think and feel and so for me it’s about optimizing the potential to think and feel from a biochemical aspect as much as possible as well as doing all the wonderful things that we can do, you know, like sunshine, getting in nature, human connection, meeting all these needs that we have as human beings, you know, it’s going to be obviously very important for our mental health as well.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:09:59.60] Yeah. Well in [00:10:00.00] Psychology, we work from you know, the biopsychosocial framework. So the biological is an important component in cultivating mental health and thriving you know, when you describe your life, then you know that you are so busy, you’re juggling all of these different things. I wonder if that would be possible if you hadn’t taken care of of your home, you know your body first?

Ben Warren: [00:10:20.60] Yeah, yeah hundred percent, I’m a huge believer. I do not believe it would be possible for me to do what I do without you know the diet I eat, without supplements I eat, [00:10:30.00] without meditation, you know, the exercise, the support from home life. I have an incredible wife who looks after the farm and the children while I travel and talk and so, you know, like even that alone, I wouldn’t be able to do this if I was a single guy, so yeah.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:10:46.50] And just to highlight it’s not just looking after the average home, it’s looking after a farm so

Ben Warren: [00:10:53.00] Yeah. Yeah, we grow about 80% of the food we eat here. And so that was when I retrained in nutrition, that was one of the [00:11:00.00] things I was really really when I started learning about nutritional deficiencies, and deficiencies in the soils and modern farming agriculture. I was like my gosh I’ve got to grow my own food. And so that was kind of one, one of the things I set as a goal for myself is to kind of grow as much food as we could.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:11:14.80] That’s incredible and I’d be keen to come back to that, to looking at you know, how maybe you know a carrot isn’t always the same as any other carrot. And looking at you know where our produce is coming from, but I guess just to sort of start on the track of gut health because this is something you know [00:11:30.00] that you as many other topics are also an expert in and we’re learning more and more about in the mental health field how much it is an influencer in our sense of self and well-being. So would you share a little bit about yeah, what gut health is and how it links?

Ben Warren: [00:11:45.50] Sure. Yeah, great! For me, mental health and the gut health, they’re my two areas  of real deep passion and so I say fold over and there’s a lot of crossover. So what is gut health? I mean gut health essentially we’re looking at this process [00:12:00.00] of digestion assimilation of the foods we eat into becoming us, sort of through the digestive system. Now esophagus, stomach, small intestine, large intestine. So it’s a 20 to 30 foot long tube with various sections with where it occurs. And so, you know, how do you know if you’ve got gut issues? Well if you’ve got acid reflux, heartburn, burning, digestion, food repeats on you, and you get bloating, belching upstairs, gas production downstairs, you’re constipated, you have diarrhea, [00:12:30.00] you have a diagnosis of inflammatory bowel condition. We know you’ve got a gut issue so that’s sort of like a small discomfort but a lot of people don’t realize is that their gut issues are driving conditions elsewhere in the body. So we’re gonna go to a strong association between autoimmune conditions and work toward arthritis and joint pain from gut and there’s a very very strong association between mental health conditions and gut health and so I’ll start off with sort of animal studies and then kind of go through to what that means for us in them [00:13:00.00] for humans and kind of talk about some of the mechanisms. So yeah, it’s starting at the animal model side, we know that if you if you take a regular mouse and with that regular mouse, and when we start looking at the microbiome, which is the sort of the the the bacteria and microorganisms that live within our intestines, particularly our large intestine, is if you then take that Mouse and take the microbiome swab, that first mouse. Let’s say it’s not exhibiting [00:13:30.00] any anxious behaviour at that stage. It’s just you know regular happy mouse and what you then do is you take a mouse who is exhibiting anxiety and you take the microbiome out of the mouse with anxiety and you put that microbiome in the happy mouse or the non-anxious mouse, I should say. The non-anxious mouse will start developing anxiety because it has the microbiome of the anxious mouse. And so kind of like really talking to the fact, how the gut is talking [00:14:00.00] to the brain and driving these, you know contributing factor to anxiety. But then on the other side what they then did is again took a mouse with a regular microbiome who didn’t have anxiety and they did some forced swim tests. Where you basically force the mouse to swim and over time the mouse starts developing anxiety about swimming and so then they then looked at the microbiome and they found that the microbiome had shifted to become more of an anxious microbiome. And so what we’re seeing this bi-directional [00:14:30.00] relationship between the mouse microbiome and the neurochemistry in the brain and the neurochemistry in the brain and the microbiome. So both of them are impacting both of these. So we see this again in human studies with irritable bowel syndrome is that, you know people with irritable bowel syndrome and inflammatory bowel condition, you know have a greater prevalence of anxiety. And yet people who have more anxiety also have a greater prevalence of IBS. And so it’s sort of like it’s a chicken, chicken or egg situation [00:15:00.00]. Same deal with depression, a lot of the research now with depression is point is really pointing to depression being an inflammatory disease from a biochemical point of view. And so it’s then looking at where is that inflammation coming from? And of course, the digestive system is you know, the home of our immune systems are up to 80% of our immune molecules are located in the digestive system, a large proportion of our T regularatory cells that regulate [00:15:30.00] our immune system are in the digestive system. And so a lot of the inflammation is often being driven in the gut and so there’s a number of mechanisms that the body is talking to the brain and the gut is talking to the brain through the central nervous system, the HPA axis, which is really a hormonal feedback system, the enteric nervous system, the immune system, neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine. So up to 80% of your serotonin is synthesized in the gut, 50% of dopamine. [00:16:00.00] And so there’s a lot of mechanisms that the gut is talking to the brain and communicating how we think and feel on a daily basis.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:16:10.10] It’s quite incredible. It sounds like all of these systems are operating together. When you talked earlier about, you know, it’s not necessarily just as simple in the case of some, as taking you know, the vitamin. It sounds like it’s about figuring out what specifically someone needs to affect their system, given that all of these components are interacting [00:16:30.00].

Ben Warren: [00:16:31.30] Absolutely a hundred percent. And so for me, it’s a very personalized approach. Always, you know, when you’re working with clients is it’s you, obviously, we’re primarily working in the field of nutrition and diet and lifestyle factors. But again you’re looking at, what does that individual need? And and you know, how can you, how can you, meet that need? And that could be at a nutritional level but it also could be a diet and lifestyle or or more social aspect.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:16:59.80] Yeah, [00:17:00.00] would you be able to just speak, because you mentioned 80% of serotonin and you know 50% of dopamine being produced in the gut. Would you mind just explaining why that’s significant in case listeners are like, I feel like I’ve heard of serotonin before but maybe don’t have the connection.

Ben Warren: [00:17:15.50] Yeah. So serotonin is you know, it’s it’s kind of classed as our, as our happy hormone. So it’s the one that you know, originally a lot of medications for depression work on recycling serotonin [00:17:30.00] within the body, within the brain, and so it’s one that’s traditionally been pointed to as a key pathway or lack of Serotonin that’s associated with depression. Although a lot of research is now pointing at showing us a lot more complex than that. So the serotonin that’s synthesized in the gut is primarily synthesized by the beneficial bacteria that are residing there just to be completely clear and transparent with people, it’s that serotonin is too big a molecule to cross the blood-brain barrier. But the precursors are, can cross the blood-brain barrier [00:18:00.00] and serotonin has a lot of other roles throughout our whole body.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:18:02.80] I’m sorry, with the blood-brain barrier, the reason that that’s important is because the serotonin that’s in our brain is different and that’s the one that is affected like influences our mood more. Can you explain a little bit about that process of crossing the blood-brain barrier, the precursors?

Ben Warren: [00:18:18.50] Sure. Yeah. So what happens is serotonin being a big molecule can’t get through this kind of filter of a membrane we have around our brain and so but what happens is all of the building blocks to build [00:18:30.00] that molecule can pass through and then it gets constructed once it’s within the brain. And so it’s the same molecule but it’s just too big to get over, but what happens is like the little building blocks can pass through and so again these beneficial bacteria within our guts are making the precursors to serotonin which can kind of pass the blood-brain barrier. And then dopamine, dopamine is very much our reward, kind of motivation neurotransmitter. And so again [00:19:00.00] a large percentage of this is made in the gut as well.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:19:04.10] And with regards to then so it’s made in the gut and we know that what’s going on in the gut particularly, the bacteria is affected by stress, but also like affects our levels of stress or anxiety, depression. How do we, how do we help our guts feel better? You know, what do we need to do to enhance our gut health?

Ben Warren: [00:19:24.90] Yeah. Yeah, I’ll give you I’ll give you sort of like 10 tips if you like for your listeners [00:19:30.00] that we can do for gut health and if they want to know more about this, I’ve got a you know a YouTube seminar that people can watch so.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:19:39.40] I’ll put the link to that seminar in the show notes, listeners, so you can you can go direct there and I’ve been listening to it myself. It’s incredible. So thank you for that resource as well then.

Ben Warren: [00:19:50.50] You’re welcome. No, my pleasure. So yeah, first thing would be breathing, is breathing diaphragmatically, so breathing into your tummy diaphragmatically. So this is gonna stimulate your parasympathetic [00:20:00.00] nervous system, the vagus nerve which provides a lot of nerve innervation for the digestive system is on the parasympathetic. So basically means we have to be relaxed in order to be able to digest our food. And so if you, if we wanted the first step when it comes to having better gut health is reducing stress. And so this is a stress management strategy, a stress-reduction strategy. So breathing into your tummy. The second thing I would look to do to improve your gut health would be to chew your food more. There’s [00:20:30.00] enzymes in your saliva. And so the more we can break down the food well from a mechanical aspect of chewing or from an enzyme perspective, the greater chance that we’re going to then absorb those nutrients and the greater chance or the lesser chance that our immune system will tag those foods as an invader and attack them. and I’ll talk more about that in just a moment. Another third thing that people can do is to start their day with just lemon, lemon juice and some water. I know it’s a common thing people talk about [00:21:00.00] but you know, we really want to support that hydrochloric acid production and get our digestive system kind of up and running in the morning and that’s something that’s going to support that acid production because that acid is very important to breaking apart proteins so we can absorb the amino acids later in the digestive system. So then we start getting more into the nuts and bolts of foods and what to eat and what not to eat. So my fourth tip for for gut health is going to be to really move away from and trying to minimize gluten-containing [00:21:30.00] foods as much as possible. So gluten containing, gluten is a protein that’s found in wheat, barley, and rye and for a variety of reasons a lot of people really struggle to digest and break down this protein now and and so whenever we eat any food our immune system has to look at the food we’re eating particularly the proteins and decide is this protein food or is this protein a virus or a bacteria? Because viruses and bacteria are just proteins too and so for many of us our immune system is recognizing gluten [00:22:00.00] as a virus or a bacteria and it’s triggering an immune response and inflammation which is then, you know, driving gut issues and dysfunction within the gut. So moving away from gluten. A fifth tip would be to focus on whole foods. So you’re really trying to move away from the packaged processed high sugar foods and literally focusing on the whole food. So eating the whole food. So very much thinking about that outside of the supermarket. Again spoken about a lot, but you’re really trying [00:22:30.00] to focus on eating vegetables, so fruit and vegetables being the primary source of carbohydrates in our diet. It’s going to be fantastic. So I’m not a vegan or anything like that, but I’m still a huge advocate for a plant-based diet. So even if you’re eating some meat ideally the base of your diet should be plants. Then from there, we’re moving into some more kind of, I’ll give you a couple more general exercise very very important for gut health, for gut [00:23:00.00] motility. So having the food and the wastage from that food moving through your digestive system, we need to move. Another aspect that is very important for that is drinking adequate water. So part of the role of the large intestine is to recycle water. And so if you’re, if you start getting dehydrated, it’s going to greatly increase the risk of constipation. So if you’re 60 kilos, I like people to drink two litres a day, 75 kilos two and a half litres, 90 kilos 3 litres of water a day. And then from [00:23:30.00] there, we’re getting into fermented foods and so fermented foods are foods that contain beneficial bacteria within them so that you know, sauerkraut’s going to be, you know, probably a very easy one for people. Obviously yogurt and coconut yogurt, so if you’re dairy intolerant, but what you’re doing, you’re providing sources of beneficial bacteria. And even though they may not survive, the research shows that even dead beneficial bacteria is beneficial to your microbiome and to [00:24:00.00] your immune system. So then moving into incorporating broths into your diet. So broths of like chicken broth, bone broths are very very beneficial. They have a good source of a molecule called glycosaminoglycans, which is very very beneficial for healing the intestines and rebuilding the intestines. And then from there the final tip would be to know your transit time. And so your transit time is [00:24:30.00] your time of food in to the food out system. In one end out the other end, and that that should be 12 to 24 hours. And so for a lot of people, they’re constipated it and a lot of people their transit time. A lot of people at seminars, I’ll ask you to put a show of hands, you know, like he who has a bowel movement every day? A lot of people have a bowel movement every day but I get them done to do the transit time test and and that and it’s taken four days for the food to go through them, which is way too long. And so that’s then it’s [00:25:00.00] kind of like when you look at your digestive system you want it like a gently flowing stream, you know, you don’t want to have stagnant pools in there because then you start breathing unfriendly bacteria and that drives dysbiosis, which is this condition within the gut where the bacteria levels get thrown out. And so there’s some really kind of fun ways you can test your transit time, is probably one of the easiest is by eating corn on the cob and it’s an exception [00:25:30.00] to the chew, yeah, an exception to the chewing rule. So you’re just going to bite and swallow and then you get to play spot the corn and so, you know.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:25:41.50] (Fun game for everyone!)

Ben Warren: [00:25:42.50] And yeah, and so it’s you know, it’s just a wonderful opportunity for people to check in with their body. Check in with their stress levels because again often with people when they get a little stressed, the transit times will tend to get slower, they’ll tend to be more constipated for most I mean, some people will go the other way. [00:26:00.00] But yeah, so there’s a there’s an opportunity on a daily level to really check in on your digestive system and just start paying attention to what foods did I eat? Am I feeling bloated? You know, what’s changed for me to be feeling this way? And start listening to your body because at the end of the day, many of the signals we need to maintain our health, you know, we can get from our body, for listening.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:26:27.60] That’s incredible. And that’s like an incredible [00:26:30.00] depth to those tips. So we’ve got breathe into your stomach, chew your food more, starting the day with lemon water, avoiding gluten, eating whole foods, exercising, drinking water, eating fermented foods – I think you mentioned sauerkraut and yogurt as a way to start things that people have heard about, look at incorporating broths if you do eat meat, and then the talking through the daily bowel movements, and the corn trip.

Ben Warren: [00:26:57.70] The corn trip, yeah. [00:27:00.00]

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:27:00.80] Well, that’s that’s great. So with this like what if you know, you mentioned that the parasympathetic nervous system was the one that we were, you know, trying to stimulate with the, for instance, diaphragmatic breathing which, just for listeners who maybe are less familiar with that term parasympathetic nervous system being the part of the nervous system that controls our relaxation response. And I’ve heard it called this, would actually maybe align well with this conversation, then the rest and digest [00:27:30.00] system as opposed to the fight and flight system. With that going on if someone’s following these tips and maybe still having challenges. What would you recommend? You know what this be a place where they, you know, start looking at nutritional supplements or what would be, what would be the place from here?

Ben Warren: [00:27:50.40] Yeah, that’s a great great point. So for me, there’s some key nutrients if you’re deficient in, you’re going to have gut issues. So vitamin D is one of them, the sunshine vitamin, [00:28:00.00] but I know actually in New Zealand we have very we’re very inadequate with a population level vitamin D. And and I’ve seen some studies in Australia is very similar because you obviously, you know, we’re many of us we’re frightened of the sun, right? We don’t want to get sunburnt and so vitamin D is very important. Zinc is also very very important and then also vitamin A. So for me, it’s making sure we’ve got you know adequate base nutrients. And then from there I would be looking at if people have upper [00:28:30.00] digestive system problems. So they get a lot of food repeating on them. For example or bloating. I’d be looking to give them a product that has some hydrochloric acid in and some digestive enzymes to help the food break down and upper part of the digestive system. And then if people have more tendency to say, constipation or diarrhea, unformed stools, then you’ll be looking at more coming in from a probiotic perspective to really support that system. Now, there’s [00:29:00.00] a couple of caveats to this is that if you’ve got a problem anywhere in the digestive system, you’re going to have a problem elsewhere in the digestive system. I’ll give you an example of this. I had a 14 year old client coming with her mother for stomach ulcers and they just come back from the gastro specialist and you know that, been looking at everything for the stomach ulcer. She was on medication to stop a body producing acid for the stomach ulcers and we spoke about transit times and [00:29:30.00] she was having one bowel movement every 7 days. And so, you know, like she was constipated, she was massively constipated. So I said to her, describe to me, describe to me what happens when you eat. And sh`e’s like well whenever I eat I feel the food doesn’t go down and then I get you know acid reflux and you know, apparently I have a stomach ulcer. And I was like, you know, I’m thinking it sounds to me like the tube’s full, you know like, she’s having one bowel movement every seven days. It’s a 20-foot, 20 to 30-foot long tube. It’s probably full. [00:30:00.00] It can’t go down. And so we just got our bowels working and stomach ulcers disappeared or and so, you know, if you’ve got a problem anywhere in the digestive system, you’re going to have a problem generally elsewhere. So generally I like to support the whole digestive system from the top down with some enzymes, some hydrochloric acid, and then also, some probiotics. With probiotics, there’s a lot of different probiotics out there, a lot of research for different effects, actually a lot of probiotics now for mental health. Good research around the [00:30:30.00] number of probiotics for mental health and but the research for me is very much showing the broader wider more diverse our microbiome, that’s coupled with better health, better outcomes. And so I’m kind of a fan of getting as many different beneficial bacteria into our bodies as possible and obviously food is still going to be their first port of call for that.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:30:56.70] Beautiful. So food being the first port of call. And I really liked how you [00:31:00.00] you know broke down for us that there’s like the upper digestive system and sort of the lower and I suppose I’d heard of probiotics but wasn’t as familiar that was specifically targeting a portion of the digestive system and we need to be mindful as you said if there’s a problem in one area, there might be a problem in another area. Ben, and so I mentioned sort of via email. I am, I’m a vegan so I know that but I would be you know, being mindful of specific diet [00:31:30.00] requirements that for instance wouldn’t necessarily be covered in incorporating broths and there’s other elements that go there. And I know a number of listeners might be, you know, a hundred percent plant-based as well or primarily what would those of us who have dietary requirements like that need to be considering to keep ourselves healthy?

Ben Warren: [00:31:49.30] That’s a great point. So first and foremost, I think if we go right back to trying to get all of the nutrients we need [00:32:00.00] from our diet in the modern world. It is how I came to this was when I did my Masters in Nutrition many years ago. I had to get the most comprehensive nutrition analysis software on the planet and this software was typing into the USDA database of the nutrients found in food. And so I was super excited to get the software and had the paper coming up. And so I put my diet into the software which was a very very healthy balanced diet which you know, like a lot of leafy greens [00:32:30.00] three times a day, quinoa, salad. Ya know, I had tuna for protein, chicken drumsticks for protein, etc. So very very healthy balanced diet seeds, nuts and I analyzed my diet and I was shocked to see I was deficient in five key nutrients, eating a really good diet. And so I then sort of blogged about that and people started emailing me their diets and asking me to analyze their diets. And so I started analyzing kind of like more regular people’s diets. And what I found is that they were massively [00:33:00.00] deficient in nutrition. And so that took me down this whole road of really looking at the nutrients in food and nutrient density of foods and the impact of freshness on nutrient density of foods and that’s you know, obviously lead me to wanting to grow my own food and so for me, I’m going to make a big statement. But the statement is that, In the modern world, it’s very very difficult, if not impossible to get even your RDA’s from your diet. [00:33:30.00] So the RDAs are the minimum recommended daily allowance, they’re the minimum we need to not have a disease deficiency, all right. And so you’re a hundred 50 micrograms minimum we need not to get a goiter in our thyroid. And or 65 milligrams of Vitamin C, that’s the minimum we need not to get scurvy and so it’s actually quite difficult for a number of nutrients. So for me, as a base recommendation for everyone, I recommend everyone take a high-quality multivitamin and [00:34:00.00] you know a high-quality Omega 3 supplement. So so then as you start cutting foods out of our diet, it then becomes exponentially harder and so, you know, so obviously plant-based is huge benefits in a number of areas, but one of the, one of the challenges with it is that there are gonna be a number of nutrients that you’re going to struggle, so B12 is obviously an absolute obvious one, getting adequate B12, especially for menstruating females [00:34:30.00]. B12 is required for the synthesis of hemoglobin, so red blood cells and then so you’re gonna be needing to replenish B12 at a high level. B12’s very very important for energy production at a cellular level. So if you know if you haven’t got enough B12 you are going to be tired. And another nutrient’s gonna be Zinc, and Zinc is very very, is over 300 enzymes that are dependent in your body. So your [00:35:00.00] production of hydrochloric acid, that the parietal cells is zinc-dependent the the tightness and epithelial cell junctions is zinc-dependent. So it’s very very important for gut health. It’s very very important for the production of serotonin that feel good happy hormone, serotonin is zinc-dependent. Brain-derived neurotrophic factor, very very important for, depression is zinc-dependent so having adequate zinc is vital for everybody. And again plant-based, it’s very very difficult to get to get the zinc levels [00:35:30.00] in and then the third one would be vitamin D. So vitamin D. Yes. We do make it from sunshine. But vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin. So we supplement what we get from Sunshine by our diet with the best best sources being kind of liver or kidneys or sardines and egg yolk. And so again if you’re plant-based, you know, need to be mindful of your vitamin D as well.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:35:53.40] Yep. So being I guess knowledgeable and I suppose this is the real kind of call to action for listeners. If you’re going what are these things [00:36:00.00]? And what do I need to be doing? It’s important to speak to someone like yourself who has this knowledge base to be able to look at your diet and to support you to supplement as needed because this point about not being able to you know, regardless of your diet meet the RDA, so the recommended daily, what does the A mean again?

Ben Warren: [00:36:22.60] (Allowance).

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:36:23.10] Allowance, not being able to meet that, the allowances leaves us really vulnerable, doesn’t it?

Ben Warren: [00:36:31.70] It sure  [00:36:30.00]does, it sure does. I mean at the end of the day, we have biochemical pathways that are dependent on these nutrients as cofactors for these pathways to work. And so if we start getting deficient in them, invariably you’re not going to see disease. You need to be very low to disease but what you’re going to see is a rate limitation of that pathway which may mean, you know lower energy. It may mean lower mood. It may mean you don’t sleep as well. And so they’re [00:37:00.00] just kind of they sub clinically impact your quality of life in a really big way.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:37:06.00] Yeah, and with that, you know talking through the foods, you mentioned that our daily diet, like our modern diet, but also the foods we’re consuming might be impacting. So you have chosen to move to a farm to grow all your own, you know fruit and vegetable for the most part. What does this mean for people who perhaps don’t live on a farm, are there other options like would farmers’ markets be more appropriate? W [00:37:30.00]here do we need to go?

Ben Warren: [00:37:34.80] That’s a great idea this like all things in life, there’s levels and so, you know, I just I wanted to take it to this level and but if you’re able to grow your own even just growing some own your own greens and some of your own kale or spinach is going to be amazing. And then from there is shopping local, fresh, local organic ideally.  [00:38:00.00]That’s not always possible obviously and then and then from there just trying to get as many vegetables in as possible. And so these are all kind of steps that are available to us and we get to you know, we get to play the level play the game at whatever level you want to play and you know, even though I you know, eat, you know, obviously a pretty amazing diet, I still supplement because you know, even with a diet I’m eating I’m not able to get everything I need and s [00:38:30.00]o don’t make yourself wrong for not being able to do that. You know, don’t make yourself wrong for not being able to eat organic or anything like that. Because stress is one of the biggest problems and so if you’re getting stressed about what you’re eating that’s going to probably be more detrimental than eating that food anyway, alright. So yeah, just I think the balance is very important in that sort of the 80/20 rule is also very important for mental health.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:38:56.10] So do the best you can with what you’ve got available and then s [00:39:00.00]upplement. So lead us into kind of a bit of an understanding of Be Pure because this is really your baby, isn’t it?

Ben Warren: [00:39:09.20] Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. So like like I’ve kind of mentioned it started, you know initially when I started looking at getting new nutrients from diet and being unable to get the nutrients from the diet and then I started looking at well, what did you, what do we need as a population to kind of get [00:39:30.00]? Because there’s another level which is called the suggested optimal nutrition allowance. So the RDA recommended daily allowance is the minimum we need and suggested optimal nutrition allowance is kind of optimal for the population. Obviously. We all have different genes. We all have different expressions but that’s for a population level. And so I then started looking at what do we need to take to get to that level and so we’ve the clients I was working with and this is going back sort of 13 years. Oh, you know, I was recommending they were having new probably most of them were taking [00:40:00.00] probably eight different products, you know, there were taking a magnesium, they were taking a B vitamin product. They were taking some zinc, some iodine, you know some fish oils, macro minerals, trace minerals and we were getting incredible results. And people were like this is, I feel the best I’ve felt in years, but it’s a pain in the ass taking all these supplements and they all run out at different times and it’s expensive. It was like over four hundred dollars to buy them and they’re like, is there not one supplement that I could just take that has all these things in it? And I was like, no [00:40:30.00] there’s not, there’s not one thing that’s got you know, what’s missing in the modern world. Not one thing was missing in the soils, not one thing that’s missing because of what modern food conveniences. So for example, like vitamin C and then one day a lady looked at me and she and I was telling her this and she was like she goes, well can’t you make one? And I’d never considered, you know manufacturing nutritional products. And I was like huh I was like that’s a really good idea [00:41:00.00] and I was really, to be honest with you, just thinking about myself. Because I was taking them all and it was a pain in the ass and I’m like if I could just open one bottle and take something that kind of covered all of those things that would be awesome. And so long story short, I ended up at one of the largest manufacturers in the world, in North America and Be Pure One was born. And so yeah since then, we now have 15 products in our range, all designed for me, base levels is take a high-quality multi, a high quality fish oil, [00:41:30.00] if you if you eat fish. Otherwise,

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:41:33.00] DHA would that be an alternative?

Ben Warren: [00:41:36.10] Yeah. Absolutely. DHA from algae, if you’re plant based or your flaxseed oil, if you’re under 35, it’s going to be great. And so yeah, and so it’s kind of built out from there. So yeah, it’s wonderful that we get to support so many people with their daily health habits. And yeah, we get incredible reviews [00:42:00.00] for our products and it’s very satisfying.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:42:03.10] That’s an interesting point in regards to the reviews because this is something that you are putting a lot of energy into creating high quality, you know formulations, high quality products for people because not all supplements are created equal. So this is something I think listeners might want to be mindful of when you know, you hear about zinc or vitamin D or vitamin A, just grabbing it off the shelf doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting the best bang for your buck even if it seems cheaper. [00:42:30.00]

Ben Warren: [00:42:31.80] Exactly right, exactly right. I mean invariably, you know in life. I think we’ve most of us have been around long enough to know that we get what you pay for and you know, you can get some very cheap forms of zinc, zinc oxide for example, which the absorption rates are very very low. So you’re not really going to, not really going to get the benefit, you’re not going to absorb it. And so, you know, ideally got to be looking for products that are chelated, attached to proteins. There’s real challenges in Australia with [00:43:00.00] the TGA that they limit actually a lot of the best forms, so you’re actually not allowed to use them in Australia. And so yeah. Yeah and so for example chelated boron, it’s not allowed you have to use borax which is like a it’s kind of like a laundry powder, as a form of boron in products. And so yeah, it’s yeah, so there’s a lot of different forms out there. And and so, you know you want [00:43:30.00] to make sure you’re getting it as good a product as you can.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:43:33.40] So how can listeners, you know find you, work with you, what’s the best way forward? If someone’s like wow, this is something I really want to explore. Where can they connect then?

Ben Warren: [00:43:44.80] Sure. Yeah. I mean I’ll see you through social channels, which is @bepurebenwarren and we’re an education company first and foremost so we, you know at the end of the day just it’s my passion to educate. I’ve been blessed to learn this stuff. And [00:44:00.00] so, you know, I love love to just share it as you can tell. And then also our website it’s a New Zealand-based website. So it’s bepure.co.NZ we are able to ship overnight to Australia to the Eastern seaports overnight and so and also with our clinic we are able to service Australia as well through our clinic and so we’ve got a number of avenues there that we can help if people need it.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:44:26.20] Do you ship to North America as well? Just because I know some listeners are based in [00:44:30.00] Canada and America.

Ben Warren: [00:44:31.50] I believe we ship all over the, all over the world, some countries have different.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:44:41.20] (Fantastic for everyone listening)

Ben Warren: [00:44:41.20] Yeah, I think last year we shipped them out but I’m not, I’m not, I’ve got the something got an incredible person Kay who runs that side of the business and so she knows all about it. I unfortunately don’t.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:44:53.30] I’m sure listeners can find out on your website. So going to bepure.co.nz and I’ll put the link to that in the [00:45:00.00] show notes as well as putting links to all of your social media platforms and the gut health video in the show notes too so that listeners can connect and soak up your wisdom. The educational resources that you’re providing, Ben, are incredible and I think all of the listeners and myself, you know would be feeling right now your energy and enthusiasm for this topic. This is a really really informative opportunity for all of us. So thank you.

Ben Warren: [00:45:27.30] You’re welcome. Thank you so much for having me on your show, and [00:45:30.00] I’d love to meet you in person one day.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:45:32.40] Yes. I’m sure when I’m when covid restrictions lift we’ll be able to have an in-person catch up. So I’ll look forward to that.

Ben Warren: [00:45:38.30] Sounds great. All the best. Thanks again.

Kaitlin Harkess: [00:45:46.70] Well, I hope you found this interview with Ben Warren as interesting and as actionable as I did. I know tomorrow morning, I’m going to be putting some lemon in my water and starting off the day on a good note as well as maybe buying some [00:46:00.00] corn. It was also really interesting to consider, you know, Ben’s own journey and how different food intolerances might be affecting us in unexpected ways. If you do have a moment it would mean the world to me if you just take a couple minutes to leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listening to this podcast. I’ve created a bit of a how-to leave a review if you go to the show notes. www.drkaitlin.com and there you can also download the handout on Ben’s 10 tips [00:46:30.00] for better gut health. Of course also check out Ben’s amazing YouTube video. The link will be in the show notes and head on over to bepure.co.nz to be able to check out the amazing resources as well as supplements that Ben is offering through Be Pure. Well, wishing you a wonderful week. I’m looking forward to connecting next Well-being Wednesday. Bye for now.

Outro: [00:47:01.20] Thanks [00:47:00.00] for joining us this week on the Wisdom for Wellbeing podcast. Please visit drkaitlin.com to connect, find show notes, other episodes, and to subscribe. While you’re at it if you find value in the show, we’d appreciate a rating or perhaps simply tell a friend about the show, Wisdom for Well-being is not a substitute for professional individualized mental health treatment. If you are in crisis, please contact 000, your local emergency number if you are outside of Australia, or attend [00:47:30.00] your local hospital ED.